What does it mean? The Mistaken Comma at Luke 23:43 From an 1882 Pamphlet Verily, I say unto thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Page 2 of 3 < Prev 1 2 3 Next > agedman Well-Known Member. the comma before "Today"? The comma is always placed before the word "today." Does JW teach that Luke 23:43 was corrupted? 43. However, other rules of sound Bible study also help us to understand Luke 23:43 Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, To day shall you be with me in paradise. Nor is the reference to a 24-hour period. The question raised cannot be answered by any appeal to the original text, so far as the proper place of the comma in this text is concerned. Exactly, the moving of the comma changes both the structure and the meaning of the sentence. Thread starter posthuman; Start date Jul 12, 2018; Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. (The same meaning is conveyed by all the mainstream versions.) Later copyists have added punctuation wherever they felt it should be! * Luke 23:43 KJV And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Another biblical scholar, Edward Earle Ellis, offered a more tenable explanation of Luke 23:43. "And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." > I notice that in Luke 23:43 'Truly I tell you today you will be with me > in paradise,' the W&H text has the comma after 'today' whereas the > common bible translations have the comma before today. Luke 23:43 John 14:2 2 Cor. Let's look at John 20:17. Remember the ancient Greek had no > punctuation. Before because I’m KJVO. New American Standard Bible And He said to him, "Truly I … Either accidentally or on purpose. 1:21-23 Phil. "And He said to him, "Truly I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise. The Punctuation of Luke 23:43. The teachings of Christ and the rest of the Bible must be the basis for determination, and not a comma inserted in the text centuries after Jesus said those words. He complained of the NWT's "attempt to deliberately deceive people by mispunctuation by placing a comma after `today' in Luke 23:43," when he knows better than anyone that none of the earliest manuscripts (up to the 9th century A.D.) originally had capitalization or punctuation! Yes we do. A. Luke 23:43 KJV, 'And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." The above is how The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures render Jesus' well known words to the criminal beside him on the stake. 2). Since no punctuation was used in the original Greek text, the punctuation marks were placed there by the … Clarke's Luke 23:43 Bible Commentary To-day shalt thou be with me in paradise - Marcion and the Manichees are reported to have left this verse out of their copies of this evangelist. Featured Comma in Luke 23:43. The Emphasised Bible translated by J. The seventy-sixth occurrence is Luke 23:43. 3:14,15. (Votes can change and are displayed.) Luke xxiii. 4:17 Hebrews 11:5 2 Peter 3:10 ... 26:29; 2 Cor. > Check the comma out at Lu 23:43. Luke 23:43-----A Case of the Misplaced Comma Showing 1-53 of 53 messages. Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by MartyF, Jun 23, 2019. ? When they saw texts like Luke 23:43, they took it as proof of that concept. which contradicts 2000 years orthodoxy in favor of heresy I don't follow heresy by moving commas > > > > > > >> When it comes to Luke 23:43, bias dictates where someone puts the comma. 12:2-4 Colossians 1:5 Phil. Luke 23:43. American King James Version ×. Before After I’m still deciding. Yes, every single comma in your New Testament was added by the translators. I am sorry to find men of great learning and abilities attempting to support this most feeble and worthless criticism. In order to do this, a comma is placed after σημερον, to-day, and then our Lord is supposed to have meant, "Thou shalt be with me after the resurrection I tell thee this, To-Day." — Luke 23:43, Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible translation. Results are only viewable after voting. In Luke 23:43 Jesus said, “Today you will be with Me in Paradise.” In John 20:1-17 we read Jesus meets Mary on the first day of the week and says, ‘Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: Jesus could not have been with the thief in heaven that Friday if … “And he said to him: ‘Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise,’” (Luke 23:43 NWT). According to New Testament Greek scholar E. W. Bullinger, the comma really belongs after the word “today.” The reason for this concerns the use of the Greek word for “today,” In view the above, it is evident that the comma should have been placed after the word “today” in Luke 23:43, and not before it, as is done in many Bible translations. Here it is. Certainly the true meaning would be better understood if the comma were correctly placed after the word today. And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” The paradise, of course, being "the rest" and today being the "today" of the discussion in Hebrews. There was no punctuation in the earliest Greek manuscripts of the Bible. Should the comma be before or after today in Luke 23:43? Why hasn't it been changed to reflect modern day thought on the matter? In Luke 23:43, the words in question are amen soi lego semeron, “Assuredly I tell you today” – and the question is “where does the comma go – before or after the word “today” (semeron)? Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 Next > MartyF Well-Known Member. Did Jesus Christ tell the thief on the cross that they would be together in Paradise that very day, or did he say on that day, that they would be together in Paradise? Parallel Verses. Here is the verse. The comma being after “today” also fits with the immediate context. He complained of the NWT’s “attempt to deliberately deceive people by mispunctuation by placing a comma after `today’ in Luke 23:43,” when he knows better than anyone that none of the earliest manuscripts (up to the 9th century A.D.) originally had capitalization or punctuation! It has been argued that the Greek text is ambiguous on this point, and that the position of the comma (before or after the word “today”) determines the sense of Christ’s statement. "And he said to him: 'Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise,'” (Luke 23:43 NWT). Notice the placement of the comma which causes an entire doctrinal omission: New World Translation: Truly I tell you today, [notice comma placement] You will be with me in Paradise. By moving the comma over, it changes the meaning of Jesus' words so that He is not promising that the man would be in paradise that very day. Should Luke 23:43 read, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise” (RS), or should it be, ‘Truly I say to you today, You will be with me in Paradise’? Before because I’m KJVO. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where … This is often quoted as conclusive evidence that the righteous, at death, go immediately into heaven to dwell with Christ. So the comma you see there was placed there by the > translators. > (Luke 23:42, 43) . By the way, I want to clarify, in relation to my comment above, that Luke 23:43 is an instance where syntax emphatically DOES make it clear where a pause in the sentence goes, and thus, where a comma is required. Where does the > comma go ? "Verily I say to you, today you shall be with me in Paradise." He zeroed in on three expressions: “today,” “with me,” and “Paradise.” Today Ellis didn’t question the placement of the comma before the word, today, but still said, “This does not mean … that Jesus expects an immediate parousia. Should the comma be before or after today in Luke 23:43? Luke 23:43 - Punctuation To return to Dr. Mantey's criticisms, we next find him complaining of the NWT "attempt to deliberately deceive people by mispunctuation by placing a comma after `today' in Luke 23:43," when he knows better than anyone that none of the earliest manuscripts (up to the 9th century A.D.) originally had capitalization or punctuation! Featured Comma in Luke 23:43. Fascinating question. 3:20 1 Thess. The first thing that any person who wants to determine where the comma goes has to keep one thing in mind--Koine Greek did not have a comma. Top Posters. Jesus granted this unrighteous individual his wish by saying “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:43) The Apostle Paul explains that there is going to be a resurrection of righteous and unrighteous individuals in the coming Paradise on Earth. Luke 23:43 Believers are promised they will “put on immortality,” that will happen at the resurrection, not at death. Luke 23:43 NIV, 'Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43 “And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. --See "Understanding and Translating 'Today' in Luke 23.43," by J. Hong, published in … . Results are only viewable after voting. Top Posters. Place it at another place, and you get a whole different > concept. As you can see by other responses to your question there is some contention over this verse. By moving the comma over, it changes the meaning of Jesus’ words so that He is not promising that the man would be in paradise that very day. Later copyists have added punctuation wherever they felt it should be! For the punctuation marks in Luke 23:43, there are three possibilities: to put a comma before the word "today," to put it after "today," or to put a comma both before and after "today." (Acts 24:15) LUKE 23:43-"Truly I tell you today,You will be with me in Paradise"(NWT)- Where should the comma be placed? This is not how most translations so render. Is there a Biblical basis for placing it AFTER the word TODAY instead of before it. Before After I’m still deciding. 1). Some of the early Christian teachers had been taught a Greek philosophic concept called the immortality of the soul. Luke 23:43 Hebrew Bible ויאמר ישוע אליו אמן אמר אני לך כי היום תהיה עמדי בגן עדן׃ Luke 23:43 Aramaic NT: Peshitta ܐܡܪ ܠܗ ܝܫܘܥ ܐܡܝܢ ܐܡܪ ܐܢܐ ܠܟ ܕܝܘܡܢܐ ܥܡܝ ܬܗܘܐ ܒܦܪܕܝܤܐ ܀ Additional Parallel Greek. 5:8 2 Cor. Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by MartyF, Jun 23, 2019. ? Site … Luke 23:43-----A Case of the Misplaced Comma: James: 4/26/13 10:54 AM *Luke 23:43 in the King James Bible reads, "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." (Votes can change and are displayed.) A discussion on the placement of the comma in Luke 23:43. ... they say so and said it 600 times—but not at Luke 23:43 or in any of the other seventy-five occurrences of the phrase.] The Gospels: The Comma of Luke 23:43. Word `` today. there was no punctuation in the earliest Greek of. You today, you will be with Me in Paradise. the truth, today you will be Me. Quoted as conclusive evidence that the righteous, at death, go immediately into to... 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